Hi everyone,
Sorry about the LOOOOONG delay in getting the blog up and running. Here's the prompt for the second blog post:
What has struck you most forcefully about the Maya Hieroglyphic Writing System as we have studied it so far? What would you like to know more about? What kinds of issues does this writing system and the way it is used raise for you in the context of the course?
Things to think about: medium (what is the writing written on, and how is the writing produced e.g. carving, painting, other??), form of writing, relationship of writing to art, relationship of writing to performance, relationship of writng and art to politics, relationship of writing to sculpture specifically to monuments, relationship of monuments to notions of time and space.
What if anything does this writing system tell us about Maya society?
Hope this will be a prompt to get you started on thinking about your papers for the first part of the course as well.
Please post as replies to this post. Replies to replies should show up as threaded posts.
cheers
Chris
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteJustina Bonfiglio
ReplyDeleteBlog 2 Honors 490
October 21, 2012
The Maya Hieroglyphic Writing System seems to be very complicated. There are so many symbols and pictures. Even with a guide to how to decipher the writing systems, it’s still very difficult to decode. The different pictures and symbols are interesting to look at. Some are drawn more complicated than others, but all of them are wonderful. Some images are disturbing. The image with the man standing on top of a human body makes me cringe. The sacrifice of humans in the culture is scary to think about.
I would like to know more about what inspired the Mayans to draw certain symbols for certain words. For example, the symbol for “mother” and “wife” are not exactly depicting an actual person. If they were, it’s difficult to distinguish the pictures. I would also like to know what the symbols meant and why they represent those certain words. Our professor explained the “seating as lord” symbol. The explanation made the symbol make more sense as to why it represents “seating as lord.” Even though the human sacrifices are scary to me, I would want to know more about the ritual and what kinds of things took place during a sacrifice.
The writing system definitely relates to what we are learning in our course. The use of knowledge and how it’s created and passed down through time is evident through the writing system. The Mayans used these symbols to document important events in their lives. The writing system was meant to be used as knowledge to pass down to other generations through time. The writing systems were something a person could reference, instead of a verbal account of a moment in history. The medium the Mayan chose were carvings and they had to carefully carve each symbol. The symbols have a lot of shapes and detail and I’m sure it took a great deal of time to record an event or story. The symbols are quite magnificent and I would also interpret it as art.
This writing system tells us that Mayans wanted to record their history on something tangible. They wanted a record that can be passed down through time. It also shows us how intelligent and creative the Mayans were. The symbols are very complicated and detailed. They put a great deal of effort and time into creating this writing system. The writing system was made with purpose and for a purpose. Hundreds of years later, we can still look at their writing system and try to decipher it. Today, we can reference it and learn from it.
The thing that has really struck me about the Mayan writing system is how incredibly complex it is. I don't think I could ever manage to read any of it without a word bank handy. I guess what I would like to know more about is the context behind the writings. I would like to learn about the events that prompted the writings rather than the writing itself. This writing system confuses me a bit as I'm not sure if we should be focusing on events or on learning the signs.
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree! Even if I'm using a word bank, I still find it a bit confusing. I would also like to learn more about the context behind the writings. Even though its somewhat difficult to understand, I still find it very fascinating.
DeleteJustina Bonfiglio
Reflecting on the Mayan Writing System: Nirell McKudu
ReplyDeleteI think what fascinates me the most about the writing system is how secretive the Mayan culture is. Linguistically the Mayans do not follow the traditional rules of a western alphabet but their unorthodox lifestyles and way of thinking is also complimentary to their writing system. The limitations set upon certain components of knowledge reveal a hierarchy of class within society and how that affects the amount of knowledge that is bestowed upon you. I also find the manner in which they express themselves: through art is also very interesting especially when it comes to interpreting what they are trying to convey, the Mayans appear to take on a less than conventional route when it comes to the their linguistic make up; the integration of art, rather than using a letter system eluded that the Mayans were a very complex people and expression was very paradoxical in its composition and what it was conveying. The hieroglyphs appear to tell a story within a story because of the various depictions and what they mean to the audience. The ambiguity that is found in art sometimes interferes with the interpretation in the Mayan writing system. I still find it difficult not to view what we are learning as Art History. I really feel there is a deep relationship that exists, however the anthropological component here is key and encourages an in-depth analysis of trying to unravel and understands a culture that is no longer in existence and perhaps unlock their secrets. Perhaps they have something to teach us and why is their knowledge so valuable and why are they withholding it still through art even today. Why are anthropologists so interesting in trying to discover the secrets the Mayans are withholding especially if it appears they were culture that showed little compassion and encouraged the consistent sacrificing of human lives? To say they were a blood thirsty people perhaps could cause backlash about they depict in their art work and in their Stelas as well.
What struck me most forcefully about the Maya Hieroglyphic writing is that it appears to be phonetically difficult to decipher than Egyptian hieroglyphics. None of the Maya Hieroglyphic writing is alphabetical; the glyphs do not represent letters but instead are pictorial. Each glyph is unique in its own regard; the glyph for the ruler Smoking Squirrel is very unique. In his stela, his name glyph appears on the left depicted as a figure of a squirrel and the “smoke” in his name originates in his headdress on the right. I can’t help but wonder another realistic translation is “chief hot-head who eats squirrels.” In addition, Mayan Hieroglyphic Writing is symbolic of arcane gestures; one of the glyph means “seated as a lord” versus “standing as a bear.” Another glyph means “burial/mucah.” One must interpret this as significant to the Mayans. Each glyph sometimes symbolizes a certain event or important ritual offering. In addition, I could not help but wonder if the interpretations of these symbols are correct. Different anthropologists produce different meanings to the Mayan glyphs. I was curious about how these anthropologists originally came up with the meanings behind these symbols. Apparently, they have authenticity but as in today, the context is just as important and toward better translations to the meaning of the glyph.
ReplyDeleteWhat I would like to know more about is how to understand more about the origination of the writing system of the Mayans. I find that anthropology is very interesting but different than a “hard” science. I also like to know how these Mayan glyphs evolved and the thought processes and purpose behind their creation. It is a form of communication but what exactly are they trying to convey?
One of the major issues that this writing system creates is that it is very hard to decipher to the uncommon eye. To the person with no experience in the Maya language, the Maya Hieroglyphic writing looks like a bunch of pictures with no particular symbolic meaning, similar to the graffiti art that was prevalent during the 1960s where walls and subways were spray-painted with meaningless symbols and initials. In order to understand this hieroglyphic writing, a larger educational process must be conducted in order to understand Mayan culture and orientation. Specifically, why is this communication form was used where other symbolic forms were available? In short, this type of hieroglyphic writing cannot be translated into other languages, unlike Egyptian hieroglyphics, whose purpose was to perpetuate the culture and language for future generations. Translation and understanding the Mayan hieroglyphic writing is a daunting task which I look forward to doing with minor trepidation.
What strikes me the most about the Maya Hieroglyphic Writing System is that the Maya knew that the language and writing system was complicated and that it was, in fact, purposely complicated. The Maya could appeal to both literate and non-literate audiences because of the combination of writing and images. However, some information was purposely unavailable to the non-literate audience – only the literate (and presumably more elite) members of the society would have been able to read the writing. I also find this interesting because people from outside groups would be able to understand the images, but not necessarily the writing. I find this interesting because the Maya put so much labor into pieces that only a select group of people would be able to fully understand.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing I find interesting is that those who carved writing and images were very skilled. The labor was extensive, but it must have been a highly revered position to be the person to carve the writing. It seems like in other cultures the most (physically) laborious tasks are given to plebeians rather than elites, but in this case the difficult labor was reserved to someone who knew how to read pictures and writing and create art. The stila we saw that was written in a weave-formation is an example of what made me realize that those who create the carvings were highly skilled. Not only did that carver have to know how to read/write and carve, but he/she also had to understand how to weave.
I find it interesting that not only were many people within a particular group kept from fully access all the knowledge each carving contained, but outside groups were as well. Outside groups (including modern civilization) were kept from the knowledge even more so because many of the images require a basic understanding of symbolism in Maya culture. Also, a lot of information was left out of carvings – there wasn’t background information or details about events – it was assumed that the audience already knew the background information and didn’t need it to be summarized on each new stila. The information the Maya produced was not broadcast information, it was meant mostly for themselves and that’s what I find most interesting and also what I have questions about. If the language and writing system was just for them, then did they wish to communicate information about their culture and leaders with outside groups and people of future generations at all?
The fact that the language and writing system was so complicated and reached such a narrow group of people is what I find most interesting, but I have a few other, slightly unrelated questions as well. The carvings focus on a basic action and the date of the action, but it is clear that the date itself was more important than the details of the action. Was the number/amount of action and events important? For example, would a ruler be remembered or considered better or more powerful based on the number of events they could claim and record during their reign?
My initial impression and reaction to learning about the Mayan writing system was not only the level of complexity involved, but also the degree of symbolism which makes up the system as a whole. Everything is a symbol or image for another meaning, making the language mysterious, intriguing, and secretive, as Nirell mentioned in her blog. As we discussed at the Peabody museum, Mayan culture consists of gateways to knowledge in which certain classes have more access to knowledge than others, somewhat like our own society today. As we have seen so far, the writing system is maintained and expressed primarily on stelas and other statues that are raised in height and stature. These stelas consist of a complex array of images and lines that represent an important idea or story. From what I have learned of Mayan culture thus far in the class, the writing system and the act of writing in general was one of the most important parts of Mayan culture because it allowed for the continuation of everything else. It allowed rulers to purport their rule and glory far past the ending of their individual lives. It has also allowed those who have come after to understand and interpret their culture. Writing in Mayan culture informed their ideas about art, politics, gender, society, etc. and vice versa. While writing was a method of communication for the Maya it became even larger than that because this type of communication was meant for future generations as well. It was meant to be seen and read by those who would come after as is obvious by the dominance and permanence of the method of writing. Thus, writing also became a form of art as the images carved into the stone were art forms as well as methods of communication.
ReplyDeleteI was fascinated by the way that dates are marked on these stelas and in Mayan hieroglyphic writing in general. We see a combination of lines and dots to mark certain points in time. This method of dating relates to the Mayan calendrical system which we have learned is both cyclical and linear, just like ours today. Even on the stelas, this cyclical pattern flows throughout many Mayan images. In the Kartunnen article, she writes that even in Mayan poetry, this circular nature is present. This alludes to the aspect of Mayan culture where there is no beginning and no end, everything repeats over itself and starts again. This idea and the fact that Mayan writing was carved onto these stelas, meant to outlast generations, informs us that Mayan rulers wanted their culture to outlast their own lives and become a symbol for those in the future. Interestingly enough, as the Kartunnen article states, many Mayan traditions and aspects of culture are still practiced today even though there is this idea that Spanish conquest decimated the culture entirely. I would like to learn a little more about what aspects of Mayan culture, besides the calendrical system, can still be seen in some form or level today.
Finally, my reply! I’m last again! I had half a reply written, but when I got back to it, GONE! Excuses, excuses! Nonetheless! My reply…
ReplyDeleteInteresting to me is what appears to be the complexity of their writing system. However as I’ve thought more on that, I find it’s not the complexity as much as it is just different. French is complex. Chinese is even more so. An innocent observation and comparison for the Mayan writing system would be to cartoons (illustrations). That comment is not meant in any way to take away or insult their communication skill. Actually, it is more of an assessment of this reader’s ability to decipher the illustrations Mayans have left behind. The trick in learning a foreign language, say French or Chinese, is interpretation. Modern society has had to interpret Mayan writing without an interpreter or teacher. As our understanding has grown we have been able learn about their culture, traditions, history and so much more. That, to me, is where the interest takes off!
Their cyclical view of time is what first grabs my attention. Then with a further understanding of Popul Vuh and the story of the twins we watched, the concept becomes clearer. With this video we also are able to appreciate the drawings and the caricatures portrayed in Popul Vuh. The artwork displayed at the museums on the bowls, vases and so forth is so clear considering its age. Unlike the Stela’s and temples which have shown more decay over time. But what they share is the legacy left behind. It is a common bond throughout humankind to somehow leave something to the future that we may not be forgotten. In their temples and their tombs, the Mayan culture survived to tell its story.
I would like to further my understanding of their social culture as well: to understand how their temples were built, and the lives of the laborers. Who were taught the skills to read and write? How were they chosen? I have not yet had a vacation to a warm destination! My focus now will be to include time to explore the Mayan temples when the opportunity arises.